How we perceive accents

[Chiara]

Actually, I don’t know really if there’s any snobbery about accent in Italy. Being Italy made by many different regions using different dialects you don’t care about people having different accents, it’s just normal.
You can like an accent or not, maybe in my opinion people with “milanese” accent can be seen as a little bit posh, but that’s all.

Getting more and more into British culture I’ve realised how this accent stuff can be “discriminating” between upper class people and working class.

I must admit that I was only discriminated in my own region Tuscany. Moving from my hometown near Pisa to Florence to attend university When I was young, many here in Florence taked the piss about my “pisano” accent, almost bullied me.
Now, after living for many years in Florence I’ve gained a Florentine accent, you have to survive in some way!

In learning foreign languages I’m very picky about pronunciation, I really would like to speak other languages with no accent at all, aboveall I’m sick of hearing me speaking English with an Italian accent. I do love British accent, I mean not only the RP one, but also others such as the Scottisch or the Northerner or the Londoner. So I still struggle a lot with pronunciation, but try not to give up!

[Kerin]

I haven’t been so aware of accent snobbery in Italy either. Although now that I think about it, maybe I have heard people in the north mimic southern accents in a disparaging way…

I am sorry to hear that you were picked on for your ‘pisano’ accent – what a nasty thing. Do you find that your accent slips back when you go home? I know that I do it! It’s not a conscious decision, it just kind of happens!

You won’t agree with me, but you know I love hearing accents when people speak English and you have a lovely English ‘voice’. We will work on pronunciation with the aim of sounding natural and confident 💪

(only 1 note – taked (the piss) = took)

[Chiara]

Thanks Kerin, I’m glad you like my accent

I agree with you my pisano accent sometimes slips back, above all when I’m knackered, as if the real Chiara is coming out again!

p.s. I felt ashamed for “taked” I must try to be more attentive now on, no way to make such a kind of mistake

[sonia]

About UK, I wasn’t aware of a snobbery issue around accents until I’ve lived in Scotland for some months when I was 25: there, I’ve realized not only that Scottish accent is actually quite different from “Oxford” English, the “cut-glass” accent (but I’ve soon got attached to it!), but also that people from other parts of UK were mocking Scottish people and in meantime Scottish people were used to make fun of Asian people living there…

In my country, Italy, I think it is no so different: snobbery around accents exist among different parts of the country, among different Regions (20) and even among different areas of the same Region (eg Bergamo vs Varese, Firenze vs Pisa, Palermo vs Messina and so on).

And what I believe is that dwelling on accents is always a way to spot cultural differences: for example people with accent of Rome are associated with laziness, those with accent of Naples with cunning; and the other way around, people from Genova are stingy, the Piemonteses “falsi e cortesi” (that means incinsere and kind) and so on…

Me too, I have experienced some kind of discrimination because of my strange accent: I have grown up in a village near Milan but with parents from the South (mam from Sicily and dad from Campania) and so my accent wasn’t so aligned with that one of the children born there from native parents… Once, I opened my school diary and I found the word “terrona” written in big and red letters, I was completely shocked!

And the funny thing was that when I was in the South to visit my relatives, they called me “polentona” for joke! It was like not to have an identity, just because I had not a precise accent… what a silly thing!

Now, my accent doesn’t bother me at all… Another little personal story: while I was studying theatre, I’ve followed elocution lessons and so I’ve made my accent situation even more confused. I started answering the common question “How are you” with “bène” in place of “béne” as people in Milan wrongly pronounce this term, or saying “bigliétto del trèno” in place of “bigliètto del tréno” (train ticket)… “Parla come mangi!” (that means “Speak like you eat!”) was the reaction of people talking with me… What a laugh!

In English too, my worry is not about accent, that obviously everyone recognizes as Italian, but I would certainly like to improve the pronunciation of some words or expressions just with the purpose to be well understood and communicate better and better!

[Kerin]

I guess most people are unaware of this until they actually spend some time in the UK. I’m glad you are fond of the Scottish accent. I would like to take some credit from that! )

You make an interesting point too, that accent is associated with cultural stereotypes (some nice vocabulary there – dwell on, cunning, stingy etc. Well done)

Children can be mean – but i guess they learn it form adults! I hear that word a lot, especially in the north …

Anyway, I am happy you are not bothered about your accent anymore – I am sure i would never understand the difference between bène and béne

Notes:

– Here it sounds more natural to use ‘would’ – in the meantime Scottish people WOULD make fun of Asian people living there…

(Were used to needs the ING form after it, and the meaning is slightly different.)

– Please review the past simple. This is a quick reference: https://www.ef.com/wwen/english-resources/english-grammar/present-perfect-vs-simple-past/

Once you’ve done that, can you tell me which verbs you would change in your post?

[sonia]

Thanks Kerin for your comments!

I might have overused the present perfect. So:

…I realized not only that… (the when is known)

…I grew up… (it is past, with no effect now)

(not sure) I followed elocution lessons and so I made my accent situation even more confused…

[Kerin]

Good!

Here you need it too : until I lived in Scotland for some months when I was 25

[Rubina]

This is an interesting and inspiring theme to explore! Pronunciation is the hapiness and torment for all learners!

For me it is a reason for hapiness because I’ve just start to recognize some accents, Scottish and Australian for example. Let me tell you something that happen to me this winter. I’m not a tv series obsessed but in order to learn english I decided to watch movies in original sound. This winter I saw a British series called Broadchurch where one of the protagonists is detective Alec Hardy

So, as you immagine I felt in love with him and one of the most seductive aspect was his Scottish accent. I can’t explain exactly what fascinated me but I think is a musical and “warm” accent.

Australian accent instead is very difficult to understand, seems to me that they cut or omitted letters when they are speaking, also I found it a bit “close” and craggy, harsh. I spoke with a friend that is living in Sidney and he told me they are used to pronounce R letter in something that it sounds exactly as an italian A and that bother him!

Go back to your question I really don’t mind speaking with an accent, actually I think is nice and fun, but when Fiorentini stress to much some of our accent characteristics like speak with a potato in the mouth or completely omitting the C sounds they exaggerate and I don’t like it!

[Kerin]

@rubina as always, your discussions bring a smile to my face😍

So yes, the mix of happiness and torment is the perfect way to describe it.

(Let me tell you a quick story! I had to go to the police station in Milan to pick up a paper for my citizenship application. Now, when I arrived they couldn’t find any record that someone had called me to come in. Of course, I didn’t have the name of the officer who had called me. So I said, I am pretty sure the man I spoke to is from Naples. And the officer I was speaking to said – ohhhh, ho capito. That will have been Beppe! … And it was!!! I was soooooo chuffed that I had recognised the accent!😂😂😂)

As for Broadchurch – it is fantastic (@Vale and @chiaramig 😉) accent definitely has an appeal!

I would also recommend Happy Valley (Yorkshire) if you like Broadchurch.

Some notes:

Very clear, amusing and expressive. Excellent vocab in there!

Spelling

hapiness > happiness

I felt in love > I fell in love

english > English

Watch your grammar:

Can you try to correct these?

-I’ve just start > ?

-something that happen to me this winter > ?

-one of the most seductive aspect > ?

-he told me they are used to pronounce >?

-that bother him! > ?

[Rubina]

-I’ve just start > ? I’ve just started

-something that happen to me this winter > ? something that happened to me

-one of the most seductive aspect > ? one of the most seductive aspects

-he told me they are used to pronounce >? He told me they are used pronouncing

-that bother him! > bothering him ?? I’m not sure

[Kerin]

Well done @rubina!

He told me they are used TO pronouncing (to be used to +ing)

-that bother him! > bothers

[Carla]

Yes, there sure is.! But nowadays I´d say that if you speak in a too sophisticated way you may sound a little silly and outdated. There are different regions here and people have a certain accent depending on where they come from. I particularly pay attention to the way a speak spanish because I love doing it correctly but that doesn´t mean I sound like a lecturer in Oxford. I try to apply that to my english.

I have never been discriminated because of my accent but I remember that my phonetics teacher made us read in a certain way. Making a far too “English” and artificial pronunciation and every time it was my turn to read she would nag at me because I burst into laughter. Still, I didn´t get very good marks but I must say that phonetics helped me a lot in improving my pronunciation.

I agree with you Kerin a 100 % speaking with an accent is somehow attractive but come on! you´re in Italy. Italians are so cute speaking english.

Now more seriously, I think that some people find it easier to pronounce a language than others. I´ve had pupils whose pronunciation wasn´t good but they really tried and couldn´t. So I tell them that speaking correctly is what counts rather than quickly. For instance, I speak well english but my french is awful. So , when one of my pupils misprounounces a word, I correct it but if it doesn´t prevent me from understanding I think it´s ok. By the way, I love you “rrrr” sound and after so many years learning english it ´s great to find you , Kerin, from UK who gives me the go-ahead when pronouncing my “rrrs”

[Kerin]

@Carly Spot on! I find we are very much on the same page on this topic! Interestingly, a row has broken out on this topic between two teachers who both have a Youtube channel. I’ll try and find the link as it makes for interesting viewing…. One of them attacks the other because she is always banging on about RP … it’s quite amusing, even if I felt rather sorry for the one being attacked!

Anyway, I liked your description about a young you getting in trouble from your teacher! Makes me think of my French class! And am positively giddy that someone is appreciative of the rolling RRRRRRs!!!!

Quick note:

you need a preposition here: I have never been discriminated against …

English, French, Spanish etc needs a capital letter

👍🌸

[Gabriela]

My country (Switzerland) is a very special case in terms of languages and accents. First of all although Switzerland is a very small country we have 4 different languages: Swiss German, Italian, French and Romansh. The last one is spoken only by 40 000 people, but there are 4 different idioms (for not to say dialects, because it seems not to be exactly the same….). French is French, but the Italian spoken in the South of Switzerland is also divided in a pure Italian and in different dialects. However, the most specific case is Swiss German. It is spoken in 18 different cantons and it can vary in a way that it might be difficult to understand for Swiss Germans with another accent or dialect. I live in Lucerne and our dialect seems to be quite neutral and easy to understand for other Swiss Germans, whereas the dialect from the canton Wallis is difficult to understand for the rest of Swiss Germany as they partly use completely different words and sounds. Lucerne lies in the middle of Switzerland and there are people they can’t stand at all the dialects from the north/eastern part like the cantons Schaffhausen, Thurgau and St.Gallen. I remember when my current boss was newly elected headmistress of our school, a gentleman from the electoral committee said: “We elected her even though she speaks Schaffhausen dialect.”

[Kerin]

That is so interesting @Gabriela and actually I realise my ignorance because I thought there were only three languages in Switzerland 😳 . It’s also interesting what you say about a sort of rivalry between people with varying accents and dialects (this is true in Scotland!) I sincerely hope the gentleman from the electoral committee was saying that with a ‘pinch of salt’! How dreadful if it was meant nastily!