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How we perceive accents
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It’s very hard to find someone who speaks without accent in my Country, even the President of Republic of Italy doesn’t speaks with a neutral accent. Nevertheless there is a snobbery about regional accents, especially if someone speaks with a very strong accent and use some regional construction to formulate a sentence.
I wasn’t completely aware about this issue in UK. I read about working class in London, that speaks Cokney, but I didn’t know that this issue was source of discrimination in different part of UK.
P.S. Hi Kerin, I don’t know what happened. I wrote before on word pad and then I copied. I hope it’s OK now.
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Ah, brilliant, thank you @MariLu
Watch your verb agreement:
> … the President of Republic of Italy doesn’t speaks
> … someone speaks with a very strong accent and use some
Plural
> … in different part of UK.
Can you try and correct? 🤗
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Verb agreement:
> … the President of Republic of Italy doesn’t speaks > doesn’t speak
> … someone speaks with a very strong accent and use some > uses
Plural
> … in different part of UK > parts
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Ahaha! You’re doing great Maria Luisa! keep at it 💪
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There are numerous accents in Japan even though these are quite similar to each other. A snobbery also exists among those. There are two on top of a hierarchy, the Tokyo accent (standard) and the Osaka accent. The others are found as dialect and take the piss out of those who speak them. Therefore, they always hide their accent and speak the Tokyo accent as though they are from Tokyo.
People understand the Tokyo accent is standard and regard with respect seen as official news in Japan always use it or children in school are taught how to speak it and read stories in Japanese class with that accent.
Then why Osaka accent has such prestige? I think because of the unique characteristics of the people in addition to the strong accent as if they are quarreling. Since I am from Osaka and came to Tokyo for a univ degree, most of my friends from Tokyo asked me to speak the Osaka accent. I have never turned the request down but speak with confidence as it is the best accent in the world. It is apparent that people from Osaka in Tokyo are so stubborn (sticky to the accent) that they never fail to be assimilated to Tokyo accent at all. That is an indicator for me to distinguish those who are from my hometown (Osaka) and the others.
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As always Mao, it is so interesting to learn about Japanese culture – I had no idea of this distinction! (I hope we can start travelling again soon! I so much want to visit!)
Very good writing 👏 – here are some things I want you to observe:
> The others are CONSIDERED TO BE dialect and MANY take the piss out of* those who speak them. Therefore, they always hide their accent and speak WITH the Tokyo accent as though they are from Tokyo.
Please let me know if you have any questions about these changes. (Also love that you use the expression* – fantastic! But remember, this term is slang, so you can use it here and when you speak with friends, but not in a formal situation or writing like IELTS etc)
> People understand the Tokyo accent is standard and regard IT with respect
Can you try and correct this?
> Then why Osaka accent has such prestige?
🤗
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I don’t think that there’s any snobbery about accent in Italy. There are several accents in Italy due to the different regions and dialects. Once, the southern accents were source of discrimination. In particular, when in the 50’s and 60’s million of people moved from Southern regions to northern cities searching job, northern people felt that like an invasion, so for some decades dialects or southern accents were not well accepted in northern areas. Southern were called “terroni” (from “terra”, working the land).
Nowadays this discrimination is disappearing (maybe there can be a discrimination against migrants non speaking well Italian). A bit of snobbery can remain in some cases. For instance, in Firenze someone can take the piss whom coming from other towns (Arezzo, Pisa) or in Milan for people coming from other areas.
I think that in UK the accent can be “discriminating” between upper class people and working class.
To be honest, I have never felt discriminated about my accent in Italy. Abroad, I felt embarrassed not for my accent but because I was still learning the language. Now, I am used to my Italian accent when speaking English. Other people recognize soon my origin from my accent, but that does not bother me. The important issue is to improve English so as to communicating with others in a fluent way.
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I love this attitude, I think you are absolutely right- The important issue is to improve English so as to communicating with others in a fluent way.
When I lived in Milan, I definitely came across some discrimination towards people from the south (and I didn’t understand it honestly. Most of my friends were from there) But now that I understand more about Italy’s history and culture, I see where it came from. It is a bit similar to be being a Scot working in London!
Please have a look at the feedback. Can you try and correct 1-4?
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Kerin I don’t know if my corrections go well.
1. a source of discrimination
2. million people
3. in search of work
4. Southern people
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Morning @onorati66
Hope you are surviving day 2 of lockdown!
Let’s have a look:
1. a source of discrimination ✅
2. million people – millionS of people
3. in search of work ✅ or you could say: searching WORK or searching FOR A job
NB: As nouns, work is uncountable and job is countable (so when you use job you have to ‘a’ or make it plural)
4. Southern people ✅. you can also say: Southerners
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I was aware that, at least in the past, there was a discrimination in UK on the basis of accents. I think this is due to the fact that the British Empire was composed from a lot of different country, with different accents and trivially, if you have power on someone else, that has some differences from you, you tend to consider s/he “inferior” for that difference.
In Italy there is prejudice about accents, that it is linked to the differences among the regions. I moved in Turin from a little village in the center of Italy and until I lost a bit my accent (that I wasn’t aware to have) people look at me strangely when I was talking. From my friend coming from the Southern part of Italy it was worse. A guy I met at university was full of prejudices on Southern Italians and often mocked accents of the South. On the other hand, when my boyfriend and I come in my origin area, usually I am the one who talks with people in the offices and in the restaurants because we are worried that people hearing a Northern accent think that we are tourist and try to fool us.
In talking English, I never felt discriminated because of my accent, sometimes it is only happened that people I was talking to asked me where I was from. And, at a party, some guys started to talk us repeating two or three Italian sentences, but I don’t consider discrimination because they were drunk and they truly tried to start a conversation with us.
Previously, I had a lot of concerns about my accent, in particular while I was talking in English, but in the last years they faded away. This depends on the fact that my English improved and I had the necessity to use it.
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Interesting @Lu_Corde – I too have noticed some prejudices in Italy around accents unfortunately.
I’m really happy to hear having an accent isn’t an issue for you – it is totally the right attitude to have.
N.B
⚠️ I think this is due to the fact that the British Empire was composed from a lot of different country
If you want to use the word ‘composed’ you have to use the preposition ‘by’. However, there is a better phrasal verb you can use in this case: to be made up of (plus watch your agreement):
> I think this is due to the fact that the British Empire was MADE UP OF a lot of different countrIES
⚠️Some more errors with prepositions:
> have power on someone else >>> have power OVER someone else
> I moved in Turin >>> to move TO a place
> was full of prejudices on >>> prejudices ABOUT
> I never felt discriminated >>> I never felt discriminated AGAINST
🤗 Check out this post: https://hub.englishdigitalacademy.com/forums/topic/tips-for-learning-prepositions/
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Thank you for your feedback!
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Yes, there’s a snobbery regarding north and northeast accents in Brazil, the regions include Amazonia, the best beaches in Brazil, some of the biggest Carnivals in the world, A LOT of culture, and really beautiful portraits, but they are the poorest regions. I wasn’t aware of this issue in UK.
I’m northeastern and unfortunately I never traveled outside the northeast area of Brazil, BUT I’ve felt discrimination tons of times while playing online games. I’ve met tons of people from different areas in Brazil here in Dublin, and I never felt discrimination, but I have the feeling that people that travel abroad are more cool and open-minded, so I couldn’t guarantee that it would be the same if I lived in southeast area (as in the biggest city, São Paulo). Apart from it I could say that Irish people are incredible nice and I never felt discriminated by my english here.
It doesn’t bothers me, and after reading your text (thanks for that by the way), I feel really good about my own accent, I’ll take your advice to focus on pronounce and intonation.
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Oh, I didn’t know that about Brazil – so interesting @victorpereira and I’m so happy to hear that you have found the Irish to be so welcoming and non-judgmental. Not so happy to hear that you have experienced discrimination online, but I’m glad it doesn’t bother you.
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In Italian there are a lot of accents, from one region to another and sometimes even between cities. So “accent problem” is a reality and it could unfortunately be used to discriminate people from different parts of Italy.
Talking about English, when I was at high school my English teacher often corrected my pronunciation and that’s why I’m so shy at speaking English.
I have been in Scotland and Ireland and I noticed different accents and sometimes understanding native speakers was really hard.
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Oh I’m sorry that happened to you at high school, what a pity. I hope we can help you get over your shyness!
(ps. I’ve been TO Scotland 👍 )
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Even if I’m not obsessed, I do care about pronunciation because I think it completes the comprehension of a language. In general, being confident on pronunciation helps you avoiding taking a beamer, on the contrary, not being confident can make you shy away from express yourself. In my opinion, I truly believe it is worth to valorize the nuance of our accent because, as it is for voice timber, it is unique for everyone and it helps to express your personality. On the other hand, I think it is worth a try to smooth the peaks of our accent and try to result more fluent and pleasant to be listened to. In fact, even if accent doesn’t hinder the flow of a conversation, the risk is that people are more concentrated on the way you’re saying things rather than their content and sometimes they don’t even take you so seriously. I do have lots of example, one for all https://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=p3qBlHqWgtY
What do you think?
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Yes, I agree. The important thing is to make a distinction between pronunciation and accent (Have a look at numbers 11- 14 on this post – I think you’ll like it:
https://hub.englishdigitalacademy.com/improve-your-advanced-english-speaking-skills/)
Let’s have a look at this phrase: In general, being confident on ❌ pronunciation helps you avoiding❌ taking a beamer, (great!✅) (NEW SENTENCE) On the contrary, not being confident can make you shy away from express❌ yourself.
Can you try and fix these for me?
I absolutely agree with what you say: the risk is that people are more concentrated on the way you’re saying things rather than their content and sometimes they don’t even take you so seriously.
I am quite conflicted by the example you’ve given (and I think it’s something that’s worth discussing!) On the one hand, Renzi doesn’t help himself – he can come off as ridiculous and as you say, we are more concentrated on HOW he is saying things instead of WHAT he is actually saying.
However, I respect anyone who tries to express themselves in a foreign language. I think it is incredibly brave (I would die if I had to give an interview in Italian!). Furthermore, if you asked any politician in the UK to do an interview in a foreign language, I would bet good money that the majority would not be able to. Our knowledge of foreign languages is embarrassingly poor. So, when I get memes and videos of Renzi sent to me by friends (which happens quite a lot😂), I always feel a bit awkward. 😳😂
What do you think?
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Thank you Kerin, first of all I apologize for having monopolized the forum with the giant video, I didn’t expect while I was posting it 🙂 !
My corrections:
– being confident about
– not sure on this
– expressing yourself
Thanks for sharing your point of view, I’ve just realized it’s the first time that I’m having a discussion on this topic with a native speaker 😊it’s really enriching!
By the way, I am becoming quite conflicted about the example too. I think attitude counts more than accent.
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Ahaha! No worries @Paolo !
Ok, so the verb that follows ‘avoid’ should take the gerund form, but avoid needs to agree: helps you avoid taking … clear?
Fab! I’m glad 👍 🇬🇧 (soon I will have to stop using that flag I think! 😂 )
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