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How we perceive accents
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Good evening Kerin, I found everything you said in your little podcast very interesting and I couldn’t stop but thinking that you’re actually the only English teacher that has openly told me not to worry about my accent.
Your anecdote about college brought back some pretty dark memories of my own, as I had a similar experience with a teacher who used to call me out in front of everyone for using my Basque regional accent. This might not make sense without a bit of context so here’s the explanation: during the times of Franco’s dictatorship, Basque language was forbidden and people speaking Basque were really badly prosecuted. When Franco died, there was a huge movement in favour of recovering the use of the Basque language, Euskara. The thing is that, Basque is spoken very differently depending on the region you live in and after so many years in the shadows, some people thought this would slow the process of recovering its common use. That is why, they created what we know as “Euskara batua”, which translates as “standard Basque”. This is the language we all learn in school and it’s the language one needs to know to pass a Basque exam for professional reasons. Unfortunately, that form of Basque sounds too formal and artificial for people like me, who speaks Basque not only for educational or professional purposes, but also as a personal choice, in our free time.
In college, I was supposed to speak, Euskara batua, but I simply couldn’t do it at all times. There was this one time when I was in front of the whole class (my 50 peers & the lecturer), doing a presentation I had worked on for three months. It was about, Pippi Longstocking, a book I personally love, and Astrid Lindgren, its writer. I had spent so many hours researching about the book and designing a whole educational plan on how to work with the book in different levels of Primary School. I was so comfortable talking about it that I completely forgot to talk in proper Basque and when I finished, all my teacher had to comment on what I thought was an amazing project, was my use of non-standard language at a public institution. She made me read a very long article, written by her husband, on why people shouldn’t speak with their regional accents in university. After that, I had to meet with her and redo my presentation in her office, using standard Basque. I personally feel like, who I am today wouldn’t have accepted that, but the 21 year old me thought she didn’t have a choice.
(Sorry for the long story, as Kerin said, that’s my rant over)
I have also been laughed at for my accent when I speak in English, multiple times and still happens sometimes. Some of my children love to correct me when I mispronounce something, I don’t blame them, and I feel like I would have probably done the same thing as a child. We all love correcting the teacher hahah
I also have another story I would like to share and then, that’s me done, I promise.
My housemate, Emma, works at the hub for the county council in Ireland. She basically picks up the phone to all the angry people that have something to complain about to the council. There was one particular time she came home very mad because there was an unbelievably rude man who rang her and hanged up on her while she tried to help him. Emma thought there was a problem in the line, but after a minute, one of her colleagues got the same man on her phone and the first question he asked her was: “First of all, are you even Irish? I want to talk to someone Irish.” Emma was born and raised in Massachusetts by an Irish mom and an Irish dad.
I think the accent snobbery has so much to do with an ethno centrist point of view, where people think their thing is just the best and the only way to go. People who complain about accents will probably also complain about the amount of foreigners in their cities or villages. And most likely will be the kind of people who speak only one single language and could not be bothered to learn any other. Every time someone is rude or mean to me about my English accent I basically tell them: I can speak three languages fluently, what about you?
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@olatz thank you so much for sharing this with us. I read it a few times (one, because your English is impeccable and I’m so impressed by how you can express yourself and two, because your story about what happened at uni resonates so much with me and I feel fury towards people with this attitude, especially from educators who should know better!) I agree that if this were to happen to you now, you wouldn’t stand for it.
I’m also fascinated by what you told us about that period of history. I admit, I don’t know so much about it, but it reminds me of what happened in Scotland (a lot longer ago!) when they banned Gaelic and also wearing tartan and such things.
Poor Emma! Unfortunately, I guess your summation is fairly accurate: People who complain about accents will probably also complain about the amount of foreigners in their cities or villages What a world we live in!
ps.
> the verb research: to research ‘something’. We don’t need a preposition after the verb: I had spent so many hours researching about the book > I had spent so many hours researching the book
You can use it as a noun as well and in this case, we can use a preposition:
I had spent so many hours doing research about/on/into the book
> hang – hung
Hung is the past tense of to hang when it means “to suspend or be suspended.”
Hanged is the past tense of to hang when it means “to kill someone by tying a rope attached from above and removing the support from beneath.”
…. there was an unbelievably rude man who rang her and hung up on her while she tried to help him.
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Thanks so much for your corrections @Kerin ! I always struggle with hang and hung, ever since I was in secondary school!
Also thanks for your kind words, I find it hard to express myself when I’m writing so I’m glad to know I’m improving 🙂
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Yes, I think that pronunciation in Tuscany, as a rule, has been always considered as the clearest dilect in Italy (Tuscany dialect as the cradle of Italian language). However the most snobbery dialect within Tuscany, in particular, is the dialect talked in Siena, which is the clearest dialect talked in Tuscany.
I haven’t personally felt discriminated for my accent, however, people outside Tuscany immediately recognize our dialect.
However, dialect we speak here in Arezzo, in my opinion, doesn’t sound so pleasent and I don’t like when I hear our intonation in TV; I don’t like at all.
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Thanks for sharing! I’m glad you’ve never suffered any discrimination because of your accent @manu
I’m not familiar with the dialect in Arezzo, I find Florentines easy enough to understand, but already people from Prato I find more difficult. I think it is just a matter of tuning in and getting used to someone’s accent.
Feedback:
> Word order: Yes, I think that pronunciation in Tuscany, as a rule, has been always considered > … has always been considered
> Tuscany dialect > the Tuscan dialect
> Instead of using talk, use: dialect spoken: …is the dialect SPOKEN in Siena, which is the clearest dialect SPOKEN in Tuscany.
> I haven’t personally felt discriminated AGAINST for my accent – this link is interesting: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/discriminate
Good work 👍
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I don’t think there is a clear snobbery around accents in Italy,
if with the term snobbery we mean the attitude of detached superiority
that some people have as an ostentation of their presumed high social level.We can also focus that the term “snob” probably derives from the latinian phrase
“sine nobilitate” that means “without nobility”, so that the only way to sound like a noble man,
without being one, seems to be to talk and speak like him.In my opinion in Italy, rather than indicating socio-economic differences of people,
the “dialects” primary highlight their different origins, so that by talking
to a person in Italian language you can easily recognize the place
in which he was born and lived, regardless of his social and economic position.So, referring to the italian case I would speak more of parochialism (“campanilismo”)
than snobbery.This fact is certainly due to the particular history of Italy,
a country that has seen a very recent unification, compared to
other European countries, so that every place of Italy (a region or a municipality)
has developed its own independent language (dialect) with specifics accents and words.Personally I’ve never taken a beamer for my Tuscan accent in Italy and probably I’m lucky
because there are dialects, such as “Napoletano” “Siciliano” and “Sardo”
,which in some parts can be completely incomprehensible even for an italian.The reason is that the official italian language
has grown and developed from the works of authors such as Dante, Petrarca and Boccaccio,
who were all tuscan poets.This is also the reason why I usually fell comfortable speaking with a Tuscan accent.
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I enjoyed reading this very much and I found what you say insightful. You’ve brought up some points that I hadn’t thought about before. Great!
Some feedback, very well written, smooth structures and varied vocab. Good job 👍
Prepositions (they are dreadful, aren’t they?!!)
> I don’t think there is a clear snobbery around accents in Italy, if BY the term snobbery we mean …
> so that every place IN Italy (a region or a municipality) has developed its own independent language
Lexical changes
> We can also ASSUME(?) that the term “snob” ….
> the “dialects” PRIMARILY highlight their different origins …
Keep going Giovanni, this is great!
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@Kerin I agree with you, the Prepositions are really complicated, they are a lottery for me 😄.
Thank you.
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Hi Kerin,
I wasn’t aware that in UK there was so many accents, I only knew about Scottish and Welsh and then I thought that there was only a standard British accent.
On the contrary, in the United States I experienced how the english we learn at school is rarely used. In the US accents and idioms change not only from state by state but also by ethnic background. For example, in a city like San Francisco, speaking with asian or african americans or hispanic people it’s something like speaking three different language, even if they were born in the same city.
Speaking about Italy I don’t think (or at least I never experienced it) that there is a snobbery around accents, actually we have an opposite phenomenom: in some situations it’s hard to be accepted if you don’t speak and understand the same local accent. Here, accents and idioms are widely used, and with pride, as a sign of identity.
Actually I don’t care about accents until they don’t hinder communication, I feel quite annoyed when someone use a local accents or idiom with people that cannot clearly understand it, it’s like saying that you don’t care about communicating with that person.
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@Diego.Magionami thank you for sharing – absolutely true about the States. I’ve noticed this in TV series, such as The Wire, where sometimes I needed to put subtitles. I think it makes life more interesting to abandon our idea of a ‘correct’ English, especially the one taught here in schools – as you’ve said, it is rarely used!
Diego, this is nicely written. Here are some notes to help you improve:
> when we say countries that are ‘plural’ we always need to use ‘the’, the UK, the US, the Netherlands etc (Plus watch your verb agreement) : I wasn’t aware that in THE UK there WERE so many accents
> Actually I don’t care about accents AS LONG AS they don’t hinder communication
until is not correct here, we can’t use it like ‘finche: “As long as [x]” means that the condition will be met when [x] ends.”Until [x]” means that the condition will be met when [x] begins.
Let me know if this isn’t clear.
> I feel quite annoyed when someone use a local accents …. can you try and correct this phrase? 👍
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> I feel quite annoyed when someone use a local accents …. can you try and correct this phrase?
Uhm… maybe : I feel quite annoyed when someone useS a local accent?
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Hi Kerin,
regarding UK, I wasn’t totally aware about a snobbery around accents, at least I didn’t think it was at this level! The situation described in the lesson, with the guy who complains about the scottish origin of the teacher is just incredible, and it goes beyond accent discrimination I think.
It’s your personal experience, right?
Well, I think that’s just the point: it’s not the accent in my opinion, is the mentality of people that link the accent with the origin of someone.
I’ve seen such situations here in Italy, especially between northern and southern accents, and even in the same region too; personally I’ve never been discriminated because of my accent, tuscanian one is percieved as “cool” in other regions: I have a bunch of uncles, aunts and cousins that lives in Abruzzo and Lazio and they are afashinated about my accent, and me too about theirs.
About speaking in english, I always feel a bit uncomforable to talk with a native speaker: once I gave direction to two english tourists and they told me that my english was really good, I thought they were really really kind 😀
I don’t feel uncomforable with my accent, I think it’s nice to have different dialects and pronunciations, I like to hear them and sometimes I use some terms of other dialects too!
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Thank you for your thoughts Andrea. Yes, unfortunately I’ve had this kind of discrimination from English people more than once, but now that I’m older, I handle it much better!
Nicely written Andrea, I have a few tweaks to make, but very little. Well done!
> Well, I think that’s just the point: it’s not the accent in my opinion, is the mentality of people that link the accent with the origin of someone. You are missing an ‘it’ in this phrase. Can you figure out where it should go?
> You need a preposition: to be discriminated against
I’ve never been discriminated against because of my accent
> I have a bunch of uncles, aunts and cousins that lives❌ in Abruzzo and Lazio and they are afashinated about ❌ my accent, and me too about theirs.
✅ who live (“they”)
✅ fascinated with
👍
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> Well, I think that’s just the point: it’s not the accent in my opinion, is the mentality of people that link the accent with the origin of someone. You are missing an ‘it’ in this phrase. Can you figure out where it should go?
Right, it should be:
Well, I think that’s just the point: it’s not the accent in my opinion, it’s the mentality of people that link the accent with the origin of someone.
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That’s it 👍
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In Colombia, we have snobbery around accents, and this is still a way to be discriminated against and looked down on. When I came to London, I was ashamed of my accent and felt intimidated by people’s high tone of voice. Now that I think about it foreign English students are taught the British “Cut glass accent” at college and I love it! But the most important point here is to be understood.
Not sure if this is the case for everyone but in Latin groups, it is very likely to be discriminated against when speaking in English.❤
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Thanks for sharing Gloria. I hope you are no longer ashamed of your accent, but I completely understand how you may have felt intimidated, especially at the beginning.
> Top points for your use of vocabulary esp. discriminated against and looked down on – good job.
I suggest this tweak to your last sentence:
Not sure if this is the case for everyone but in Latin groups, it is very likely that you will be discriminated against when speaking in English. or … it is very likely that one will be discriminated against when speaking in English.
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In my particular case, I would like to master RP English accent. Mainly due to two reasons: firstly, because I love how this accent sounds and secondly, because I want to be understood by not only native English speakers but also by non-native English speakers.
On the other hand, I think that it is a good idea to learn the differences between the main UK accents in order to improve the understanding of English language. It is highly probable that when I finish this course I will attend another online course focused in American accent.
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I agree, definitely a good idea to be aware of different accents, (not only to improve our language skills) but also to be more inclusive and enrich our cultural experiences.
A tweak to make: focused in American accent > should be: focused ON American accentS (or focused on THE American accent, although which one?!🙄)
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